Trumpet 3 missing Notes
I seem to have been hit by a bug that supposedly only is relevant for Breath controller users. But for those it results in dropping notes while playing (especially when doing trills) which is really displeasing.
I suppose the problem can be reproduced with a Breath controller or with any DAW by Midi programming, so I just provide a description how to create the behavior.
- no blowing (BC = 0), no key pressed
- press a key on the keyboard
- increase BC to produce a sound
- press another key .e.g. higher (legato upwards)
- release th second key (legato downwards = trill)
- stop blowing (BC -> 0, still holding the first key
- increase BC intending to trigger the sound creation. IMHO now the key still pressed should (again) be used to determine the note.
But no sound is heard.
-Michael
I suppose the problem can be reproduced with a Breath controller or with any DAW by Midi programming, so I just provide a description how to create the behavior.
- no blowing (BC = 0), no key pressed
- press a key on the keyboard
- increase BC to produce a sound
- press another key .e.g. higher (legato upwards)
- release th second key (legato downwards = trill)
- stop blowing (BC -> 0, still holding the first key
- increase BC intending to trigger the sound creation. IMHO now the key still pressed should (again) be used to determine the note.
But no sound is heard.
-Michael
Comments
-Michael
-Michael
-Michael
I doubt my answer helps you much but wanted to let you know that I can reproduce what you described.
When playing with keyboard and breath controller, you can hardly avoid the situation, as this results from "naturally" performing with this equipment. After some decent training with the BC you will always trigger the notes with breath, pressing the key in advance or holding it pressed whenever appropriate. With this technique (and due to the multiple real time controls the TEC BBC v2 offers) I feel using the BC you can play even more versatile and "natural" then with a wind controller. (I do have a wind controller, but retired it. )
I also use multiple SWAM instruments, and those do not feature this issue.
So I suppose this needs to be called a bug of the Kontakt bases Sample Modeling Trumpet, and only can be mended by the Sample Modeling engineers.
I desperately hope for help from SM !
-Michael
Same here. Do you suggest an older Kontakt version might not provide that issue ?
-Michael
Giorgio
Giorgio
So this in fact is a Kontakt issue !
Thanks,
-Michael
Can you first verify that retriggering, i.e. playing a note, overlapping another note (legato), releasing this second note and therefore coming back to the sound of the first note, is indeed working in BC mode with the Trumpet3, or Trombone3, in the latest build of Kontakt 5.7.1 (R35)?
Please let us know.
Thanks,
Giorgio
1) Press key down D3, but CC2=0.... no note sounds, as expected.
2) While D3 is held, increase CC2, note starts, as expected.
3) While D3 is held and CC2 constant and non-zero, press key down E3. E3 sounds, as expected.
4) While D3 and E3 are still held down and CC2 still constant and non-zero, lift key E3. D3 sounds again, as expected.
5) While D3 is held and CC2 constant and non-zero, press key down E3. E3 sounds, trilling as expected
6) While D3 and E3 are still held down, bring CC2 to zero, then back up. E3 sounds, as expected.
7) While D3 and E3 are still held down and CC2 still constant and non-zero, lift key E3. D3 does NOT sound, unexpectedly.
Alternately as step 5) While D3 is still held down, bring CC2 to zero, then back up. D3 does NOT sound, unexpectedly.
So trill retriggering works until you get a CC2=0 in the mix.
--John
I also could so a script that with CC 2 = zero sends a note-off for the last note detected and with CC going non zero sends a note on for that note (unless another note on had been detected in between).
But this of course is a clumsy work around; a decently working instrument would be a lot nicer.
If this really is a Kontakt issue and can't be mended by SM, that would be really bad news, as I doubt NI will react in an acceptable time frame, while I do trust in SM.
-Michael
As you know, in BC mode, a note is triggered when CC2 overcomes a certain threshold (about 9). When it falls below the threshold a note-off is issued.
If the key is still pressed and the time lapse is less than the sample length, about ten seconds, a new note-on is issued.
This is correct, and corresponds to what has been requested by many. If the threshold had been set to zero, one could not control note on/off with the BC.
Retriggering in Kontakt 7.5.1 (r35), in BC mode, effectively works until CC2 does not drop below the note-off threshold. If this occurs after any legato, and therefore after trills, the instrument resets to the initial state. In this case raising again CC2 above the threshold, even if a key is still pressed, does no longer yield a note-on. One needs to press again a key to restore the normal behavior.
The same issue appears in previous versions of Kontakt, as for example 5.5.2.
We will try to fix it in a next release of all our Brass.
Thanks all for reporting this.
Giorgio
Great !
So we don't need to wait for NI to fix anything.
I really hope that such a release will be available really soon, as playing with the BC is decently hampered by that issue.
-Michael
It's definitely not related to Kontakt, my mistake. Anyway, we will try to fix it, as said, in a next release. Is there anything else that you would like to see in the future update?
Best,
Giorgio
Seemingly there are not many Breath Controller users who do enough live playing to develop the "advanced" technique of leaving the key pressed and re-trigger the note by breath, and be hit by the problem.
In fact I did an extensive BC playing training with SWAM instruments, that do not feature this problem, and hence I was able to get used to this playing style, and when staring to use the Trumpet, I found that certain notes in the stream did not play. After that, it took me a while to find out the exact way to recreate the problem.
Thanks for listening to your users !
-Michael
Maybe it's not perfect, but it helps a lot with that issue,
-Michael
</s><i> </i>desc:MIDI Trumpet Bugfix //tags: MIDI processing filter //author: MSchnell @init CC_MSG = 0xB0; // 11; EXPRESSION = 2; NOTE_ON = 0x90; NOTE_OFF = 0x80; minnote = 52; maxnote = 84; notes = 0; notescount = maxnote - minnote + 1; killed = 0; e0 = 0; @block while (midirecv(mpos, msg1, msg2, msg3) ) ( statusHi = msg1 & 0xF0; channel = msg1 & 0xF; (statusHi!=0xF0) && statusHi ? ( // Time code etc // x = StatusHi; mute = 0; statusHi == CC_MSG ? ( // CC Message msg2 == EXPRESSION ? ( msg3 ? ( e0 = 0; // expression > 0 killed ? ( killed = 0; i = minnote; loop (notescount, vel = notes[i]; vel ? ( // notes[i] = 0; midisend(mpos, NOTE_OFF | channel, i, 0); midisend(mpos, NOTE_ON | channel, i, vel); ); i += 1; ); ); ) : ( e0 = 1; killed = 1; ); ); ) : statusHi == NOTE_OFF ? ( notes[msg2] = 0; !e0 ? killed = 0; ) : statusHi == NOTE_ON ? ( notes[msg2] = msg3; !msg3 ? ( !e0 ? killed = 0; ) : ( killed = 0; ); ); !mute ? midisend(mpos, msg1, msg2, msg3); ); ); <e>
I am more and more using the Trumpet with good results, as I get some degree of training with it.
My workaround Reaper script does help a lot (Otherwise I could not use the trumpet), but it's not
perfect. From time to time I still get missing (unplayable) notes.
Any news regarding an update ?
-Michael
Any hope ... ?
-Michael
Still desperately waiting for this updated ...
-Michael
Still desperately waiting for this updated ...
Anybody still alive round here ?!?!?
-Michael
Any hope for a fix for this confirmed bug ?
Anybody still alive round here ?!?!?
-Michael
It will take time, but these minor bugs, or limitations, will be fixed, rest assured,
Giorgio
Staying confident...
-Michael
-Michael
This is quite unusual for this firm. They're usually rather fast on bug fixes :shock:
-Michael
-Michael