Intial test of ROLI Block Keyboard Module with SM Trumpet

carljoshicarljoshi
edited September 2018 in General Questions
Loaded the SM Trumpet VI in default mode.

Hit a few keys on the ROLI.

No sound as the ROLI does not output CC# 11 as default.

- Do not want to change the default hardware settings if at all possible, so:

Fire up MIDI Monitor.

ROLI is sending:

CC# 74 among other things ;-)

OK, let's set SM Trumpet Dynamics CC# to 74

HERE >>> In Kontakt plugin > CC remapping 1 Realtime soundshaping

Change Dynamics CC# 11 to 74, lots of clicks unfortunately :(



Yes, we now have sound & the usual legato glissandos at low velocities :D

Sliding upwards on a held key increases the intensity of the note held down :D

Holding and shaking a held key does shake the VI :D

Staccato plays like a dream :D

As an initial foray this does deserve deeper investigation.



Now I have a question.

ROLI hardware is also sending Channel Aftertouch messages, lots of them!

How do I get Sample Modelling Trumpet VI to respond to Channel Aftertouch messages?

Comments

  • MSchnellMSchnell
    edited 5:38PM
    With my SM and AM instruments I use aftertouch for vibrato depth, but of course my keyboard does not send finger wiggling that obviously would be used as pitchbend-vibrato (similar playing style as a violin).



    With my breath controller I use Bite for growl. Maybe with a Roli that could be an option for aftertouch.



    -Michael
  • carljoshicarljoshi
    edited 5:38PM
    Where can I set the SM Trumpets Dynamics to respond to After Touch? In the AM instruments it's labelled as AT in the dropdown menu in the Audio Instruments GUI. The SM menu only shows CC values 0-127. Thanks for help.
  • MSchnellMSchnell
    edited 5:38PM
    I use Reaper as a VST host, and with same you can easily find or do a script that converts PB to CC.



    (In fact with the Flutes I use PB up for Flutter Tong and PB down for Growl.)



    -Michael
  • carljoshicarljoshi
    edited 5:38PM
    Hi Michael,



    Many thanks, I have bought Reaper earlier and will try this. What worked right now was Midi Pipe https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/10541/midipipe as I use a Mac and several DAWs. It can manipulate the MIDI messages in real time.



    A little background



    My live rig with the relevant objects:



    MIDI Controllers :

    Godin Triple Play MIDI Guitar

    TEC BBC Breath Controller

    Logic 10.4 on rack mounted Mac Mini

    AM & SM VIs as my main instruments



    Unfortunately I have suffered severe nosebleeds recently.

    My GP suggested not using my breath controller for some time as my capillaries now tend to burst when I'm playing the BC > :-(



    Oh Noes!!! We loves our precious... Our TEC BBC 2!!! Just imagine not using your breath controller with these VIs?

    Shock and horror as the AM & SM VIs require CC input and faffing with an classic expression controller live with one foot is not really an option. Not if one wants to successfully emulate a wind instrument in a live performance.



    By chance I saw someone play a ROLI Grand in a pub. Bought the musician a drink. Always good to talk with people who use VIs live > ;-)



    Well... nosebleeds = no breath controllers for a while = big problem?



    So I bought the simplest ROLI ($299) as I think their gear is ridiculously overpriced (in my opinion). The Seaboard presets in the SWAM VIs were painless and just pressing, holding, wiggling and whatnot was quite easy and very pleasing on the SeaBoard.



    Now to learn some keyboard skills as a humble guitar player?



    I also got the BopPad which transcends being a bog standard percussion pad as it can send a plethora of MIDI messages while being struck with fingers or sticks and has radial response.



    Also working on transforming PB from the guitar as you have suggested. Hopefully being forced to try different techniques will also boost creativity.
  • MSchnellMSchnell
    edited 5:38PM
    As four out of the six pieces we recently added to our repertoire heavily relay on The Trumpet, The Flutes, and playing them by the TEC BBCv2, I decently hope my nose (and my teeth) will stay in workable condition for some time more.



    Nonetheless I am considering to add a Roli Seaboard to my equipment.



    -Michael
  • carljoshicarljoshi
    edited 5:38PM
    Our office was subjected to floor polish that was toxic, just a reminder of how chasing the lowest cost eventually costs more, hurts the bottom line and our former boss :P



    The cleaning company was changed as well and my nosebleeds have stopped.



    The upside during the pause from Breath Control was acquiring more MIDI sources, BopPad and Roli in addition to the usual master keyboard and MIDI Guitar &/OR Fishman Triple Play.



    I even dredged out my Hot Hand Ring from the depths of my gearbox ;) https://www.sourceaudio.net/hot-hand-usb.html



    The downside?



    On the iPad the AM saxes, flutes etc were a typical Walled Garden as in "no other MIDI sources allowed"! Only the Roli === Not good at all. (Hope I'm wrong here)



    The real upside?



    Yes! This is proof that current tablets are capable of running these resource hungry VIs. I would much rather take a tablet to a live gig instead of a computer.



    Watching he Audio Modeling instruments working smoothly on the iPad suggests that the Sample Modeling technology could also work on the iPad, albeit with a non-Kontakt solution.



    If AM can make their Virtual Instrument work on the iPad, maybe SM could as well? Preferably without being bound to a specific hardware controller!



    Who knows what the future may bring?
  • MSchnellMSchnell
    edited 5:38PM
    carljoshi wrote: my nosebleeds have stopped.
    GREAT !!!!!


    carljoshi wrote: On the iPad the AM saxes, flutes etc were a typical Walled Garden as in "no other MIDI sources allowed"! Only the Roli === Not good at all. (Hope I'm wrong here)

    To me it's understandable that the free software add-ons to the Roli hardware is protected in some way.



    Maybe the protection can (illegally) be bapassed by some hacking, but I have to experience / knowledge regarding any Apple OS at all.


    carljoshi wrote: If AM can make their Virtual Instrument work on the iPad, maybe SM could as well?

    Right now obviously impossible, as they use Native Instriment's Kontakt as a sound engine framework.



    They don't confirm this but I suppose the "new and exiting stuff" they currently are busy to develop will be their own propriety sound engine. Such of course in principle can be compiled for Windows and Mac, and also for iOS and Android.



    -Michael
  • carljoshicarljoshi
    edited 5:38PM
    MSchnell wrote:
    GREAT !!!!!


    Thanks Michael :D


    MSchnell wrote:
    To me it's understandable that the free software add-ons to the Roli hardware is protected in some way.


    I tend to agree but I would purchase standalone tablet applications in a heartbeat, at a premium price, just to be able to trigger the VIs on higher spec tablets with my own choice of MIDI Controllers, TEC BBC 2 & MIDI Guitar 2 as examples.



    To be fair the SWAM additional content sponsored by ROLI is cheap but not free:



    SWAM soundpacks in the NOISE app


    SWAM Flutes, SWAM Strings, SWAM Woodwinds, SWAM Saxophones, Bass Quartet and Treble Quartet by Audio Modeling are all available in the NOISE Soundpack Store for ($9.99) £9.99 each.

    The requirement of designated and exclusive hardware MIDI controllers is, for me, the downside of AM making an exclusive deal with ROLI. Albeit one can doodle around on the surface of the tablet to trigger the sound engine.



    I did however purchase all the SWAM iOS content at an airport at the end of June and had a really pleasant blast with it and the SeaBoard hardware on a rather long flight even though I have 10 sausages for fingers when it comes to keyboards.



    After some time I had to bring out the laptop as well to compare the sounds. Bashing the SeaBoard did produce similar sounds on the MBP when using the SeaBoard SWAM presets in the AU plugin on the Mac.



    All the while my heart was beating faster and faster as I realised that this advanced Virtual Instrument was actually playing very smoothly on my iPhone 6s (a rather old cellphone). To be honest the enforced binding to the mandatory ROLI hardware did enventualy put a damper on my spirits.



    I had to frequently switch back and forth between devices to fully appreciate that the plugin sounded and responded so well on both the computer and the phone with no noticeable lagging.



    Now that my breath is back I'm trying to bring that multidimensional expressiveness into my current setup.


    MSchnell wrote:


    They don't confirm this but I suppose the "new and exiting stuff" they currently are busy to develop will be their own propriety sound engine. Such of course in principle can be compiled for Windows and Mac, and also for iOS and Android.


    If Sample Modeling does break the tablet barrier it would be earthshaking!



    As you suggest, the possibility of an in-house sound engine would logically be a path to supporting many different platforms.



    Current iOS and Android devices are extremely powerful and the prospect of switching out a rack-mounted computer for a tablet playing a Sample Modeling Virtual Instrument is perhaps not too far away I hope?

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