Piece for 2 Flutes

edited October 2014 in User demos
One of them is SWAM Alto Flute.



Latin mood



Is there a way to adjust "level of spit"? ;)

I couldn't find it and ended up using 2 occurrences of the plugin with Styles Class and Jazz.

Not a big deal, but I'd like to know if it's possible at all.



Thank you for listening.

Slava

Comments

  • edited 2:54PM
    The only way is to control the "spit" is to increase the breath noise on the attack; you can control it through MIDI CC (default: CC25).



    Best,

    Emanuele
  • edited 2:54PM
    Difference between Breath.N = 0 and Breath.N =126 is not so big, as difference between Style=Class and Style=Ethnic.

    I wanted to make dramatic changes of "level of spit" in the same piece.



    Thanks for the response anyway.
  • edited 2:54PM
    Another (IMHO) bad thing in midi parameter control is that there seems to be do strict way to define "overblow" on/off via midi. Just a toggle switch via keypress.



    Why not allow all parameters to be allowed to controllers and/or keyswitches ?



    Programs like Bome's Translator can be used to e.g. translate controllers to keyswitches and vice-versa and to translate keypresses to toggles, but controlling toggles is not possible in a decent way.



    -Michael
  • edited 2:54PM
    Overblow activation is controllable via MIDI CC; just check the MIDI mapping options in the Options page.



    As for the "Style" parameter, we chose to avoid to control it via MIDI for two reasons:

    1- it changes "physical" parameters of the flute, it is like changing the characteristics of the material in real-time, impossible in the real life

    2- changing the Style requires more CPU power, varying it continuously would produce CPU spikes



    Best Regards,

    Emanuele
  • edited 2:54PM
    leleswam wrote:
    As for the "Style" parameter, we chose to avoid to control it via MIDI for two reasons:

    1- it changes "physical" parameters of the flute, it is like changing the characteristics of the material in real-time, impossible in the real life

    2- changing the Style requires more CPU power, varying it continuously would produce CPU spikes



    Best Regards,

    Emanuele
    That's the answer I was looking for.

    Thanks for your time, Emanuele.
  • edited October 2014
    leleswam wrote: Overblow activation is controllable via MIDI CC; just check the MIDI mapping options in the Options page.
    Of course you are right.

    I once tried to configure Reaper so that Overblow is on when the "Flutes" are started (for live playing). I now see that Reaper in fact sees the "Overblow Switch" parameter. I seem to remember that an older version of Reaper did not see that some months ago.


    leleswam wrote:
    1- it changes "physical" parameters of the flute, it is like changing the characteristics of the material in real-time, impossible in the real life
    Why not allow for a fancy flute if a fancy user likes it :D
    leleswam wrote:
    2- changing the Style requires more CPU power, varying it continuously would produce CPU spikes
    Nobody is forced to use it if his hardware is too weak. In fact I seem to be able to handle the slider without hearing any problems (CPU: i7, 4*2 GHz).



    Regarding both arguments: If changing the parameter while no sound is produced, no unwanted stuff will be heard.



    -Michael
  • edited October 2014
    leleswam wrote: Overblow activation is controllable via MIDI CC; just check the MIDI mapping options in the Options page.

    Using the latest update of Reaper, I re-checked and now am able to express the issue more precisely.



    While many (most ? all ? ) editable parameters setting and CC values are stored by Reaper (with "save") and automatically re-applied when starting Reaper and hence the Flutes in same, the Overblow parameter does not seem to be stored and is "off" with any new start.



    I suppose, Reading the "Overblow Switch" parameter and/or the CC value for "Overblow" (I tested the default CC 64 and modifying the assignment to cc 30) for storing does not work.



    The names of both the "Overblow Switch" and the "Overblow CC" are seemingly correctly read by Reper from SWAM and shown the Reaper's appropriate selection lists (eg for automating the parameter or CC value in a track).



    How can this be improved ?



    Thanks,

    -Michael
  • edited 2:54PM
    sfiks wrote: Difference between Breath.N = 0 and Breath.N =126 is not so big, as difference between Style=Class and Style=Ethnic.

    I wanted to make dramatic changes of "level of spit" in the same piece.

    I understand, that VSTi parameters are communicated between the VST host and a VSTi plugin in a very similar way as CC values.



    I use Flutes in Reaper and I tested that when saving the reaper project, the "Style" parameter value is stored and retrieved when restarting Reaper. So I suppose, that this parameter in fact is communicated in that way. (Similar to close to all other SWAM parameters plus all CC values that SWAM supports.)



    Reaper can automate all parameters of a VSTi (not only the CC values as a Midi file would be able to).



    So for Reaper tracks your request should be possible.



    For live playing, an extremely versatile VSTi Host in principle could transform an incoming CC value to any (also non-CC) VSTi parameter (but I did not yet find out if reaper can do that - it might need a decent calculation in the process to be useful - : I'll ask in a forum.)



    Unfortunately (other than close to all other SWAM parameters) "style" is not found in the list of parameter name Reaper imports from Flutes. So I suppose a different name is assigned to that functionality in the SWAM VST interface.



    -Michael
  • edited 2:54PM
    I asked in the Reaper forum if Reaper would be able to convert a CC input to values for a non-CC based VSTi parameter.



    I was astonished to hear that this is in fact possible using some tricks,



    See: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=147707



    -Michael
  • edited 2:54PM
    I am doing some conversions with the great free midiConverter3 plugin from InsertPiz http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi



    The article you linked can expand this even more to buttons in VSTi that cannot be mapped to any midi messages.



    Thanks for the link!

    Kobi
  • edited 2:54PM
    Kobir wrote: The article you linked can expand this even more to buttons in VSTi that cannot be mapped to any midi messages.
    If I understand the author correctly, not only buttons but also sliders...



    Please keep us posted if you try it.



    -Michael
  • edited 2:54PM
    MSchnell wrote: Another (IMHO) bad thing in midi parameter control is that there seems to be do strict way to define "overblow" on/off via midi. Just a toggle switch via keypress.

    Michael, look at the print screen.

    It's the easiest way to turn the switch with an envelope.

    Value 0 through 0.50 - Off, value 0.51 through 1.00 - On



    Regards,

    Slava
  • edited 2:54PM
    Thanks for the answer.



    The issue is that (right now) I don't have any hardware controllers (but the wind controller) attached, no computer keyboard and no monitor. So I need to have "Overblow" switched to "on" right when the PC had been switched on and the software (Windows->Reaper->SWAM) started. No Reaper track is started, Reaper just forwards the Midi input to SWAM.



    Unfortunately (while all other settings get saved and then restored at startup without any ado, "Overblow" always is off.



    I received several tips from the Reaper forum, which I need to try. (E.g. some additional plugin and setting might be able to send Overblow CC at startup.)



    OTOH, in the end it seems like a SWAM "issue" that the "Overblow Switch" behaves different from all other parameters on that behalf.



    I suppose (need to check) that when Reaper reads the parameters to save them, SWAM gives the "Overblow CC" = 0 even though in the GUI the "Overblow Switch" had been set. (While SWAM never received an "Overblow CC" message.)



    Hence at startup Reaper first sets "Overblow switch" correctly to "on" and later send "Overblow CC" = 0.



    -Michael

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