Is there any way to get a proper aggressive attack in the ensemble strings?
Or is that just one of the limitations of this library? Currently I'm layering my Samplemodeling strings with other libraries (VSL/Spitfire), which is fine, they do the bulk of the work with getting me a nice proper attack, but it would be much nicer if my Samplemodeling section could join in. Even with Attack time (CC26) set to 0, there's just no 'bite' on the attacks at all. And rapid double bowing? No chance.
It would be great to know how to get this, if possible. The samplemodeling ensemble strings are great for long, lush string textures, but I feel they're pretty limited (for me) in terms of being able to get a good aggressive sound.
Comments
Please note that the parameter CC26 - "attack time" - refers to duration of various parameters/curves after note-on, and is not necessarily meant as a typical initial attack time of an ADSR-envelope (please refer to the User Guide for details). The initial attack can be mainly controlled by the velocity, CC38 and CC11 course, as already discussed in the VI forum.
You refer to the attacks of ensembles. To better understand your point and to be more precise please provide us with some examples taken from other sources.
Thanks.
Peter
I've been playing about with CC38 and CC11, it's a lot of hard work and frankly the effort isn't worth it for something that doesn't have the bite I can get from a sampled library. Have a listen to any of the competition - VSL Dimension strings have a great staccato patch with a really good attack as an example (although their long notes aren't as playable as the Samplemodeling strings, and don't have that warmth of sound to them).
Thanks!
Michael
Hi Michael,
my kind request was simply to get an example. Of course we know that other libraries/instruments sound different. But any articulation - especially on strings - has so many nuances, that we must define them more precisely. The so-called "bite" could be the steeper rise of the waveform, or louder portion of the initial interharmonic noise, or a more "bumpy", accentuated beginning, or louder initial "scratch", and so on. Moreover, there might be the need for a kind of slightly "hyper-realistic" attacks, beyond the natural ones, etc.
So a clear example is still necessary, if we want to spot the problem.
ok, here goes - see the string repetitions here at bar 14? Around the 30 second mark. They're in time (measured), and have a real attack to the sound I can't get from my s/m strings (I have no idea whether this link will work, the link posting behaviour on this forum is a little strange). I just can't achieve this sort of effect convincingly, no matter what I tweak (and I've done tonnes of tweaking!).
or from bar 75 (2'14") in this cue. Same sort of effect. The strings have a real bite (and I've heard his mock-ups as well, and they've got this quality to them).
Does that help a little more to see what I'm talking about? Happy to find some more examples. It would be so great to be able to get this effect with my s/m strings, I can do literally EVERYTHING else with them. It's just this one thing (which is hugely important in film/TV scoring) that I can't figure out. It may be user-error of course, but I've seen enough people in the same boat as me to think it may not be.
Thanks for any advice! As I say, the best example from the sample-based world is the VSL staccato string patch.
Michael
Sorry I wasn´t clear enough. Asking you for an example I did not mean a complete score, where single articulations are masked by the complex, rich sound of many instruments. I meant a single tone, or a few of them... Just a single example from a sample library you consider as a kind of reference. In your present examples the overall impression is a sum of many factors, and a result of brilliant orchestration. Of course a particular way of bowing is essential, but it cannot be isolated and analyzed here, in this rather monumental sound. Just send us please 1 - 3 examples of single samples playing the way you are looking for, taken from a library of your choice.
Peter
No problem! My fault. I've understood you now. Here goes then. VSL Dimension Strings. Celli. Spiccato articulation - all players.
Whatever I tweak, I just can't seem to get the same quality of attack with my S/M ensemble strings.
Thank you very much for the examples. Now the problem is much clearer, and I realized that I wrongly understood your "bite", thinking that you mean an aggressive, very "scratchy" initial bowing, kind of very emphasized marcato. But your example shows a very particular, rather light short bowing. Fortunately we are working on an update and it could be that we will apply some further modifications of the instruments which will come closer to this type of articulations without too much tweaking. But first let me please check what´s feasible now. I´ll do some tests and will let you know these days.
Excellent, thank you Peter! I look forward to it.
Hi EmmCeeSq,
I finally could compare your examples to some "out of the box" cases using our strings. Please find an example file attached. It contains 3 examples. The first is the present version 1.1 (as you have it), using the shortest possible settings. Indeed, in your example the bowing - which is just one of infinite number of possible articulations - is shorter. The two further examples are played using an early version of our next update. It´s not finished, but shows at least the direction one can go, acting on note length and CC27, for example. We are still working on some other parameters.
(Please note that, differently from your audio example, the attached example uses 44,1 kHz SR.)
Peter
Do you feel the lack of "aggressiveness" with solo strings, as well ?
There is a new solo violin library called "Stradivari" by Native Instruments. The demo seems to feature some articulations with rather "aggressive attack". Maybe you want to compare this to what you experienced.
No idea if "Stradivari" can be used in some kind of ensemble mode.
-Michael