Creating Horn sections
I've sent this request to tech support as well but wanted to join the forum and see if anyone here has any thoughts about what I'd like to try. I own the whole Brass section and SWAM saxes. My current quest is to create an orchestral template with SM brass that is as creative and convenient as possible.
I discovered something wonderful about the Horns today and it inspired me to try something new with my template. I can't accomplish what I need in Kontakt so I'm hoping you may have a solution.
While playing with the four Horn for Unison patches I began muting one or two of the patches (via the Mute button in Kontakt) in various combinations so I was essentially playing a 2 or 3 horn section instead of the four as intended. For example, mute Hn 1 and 2 and play a unison line with Hn 3 and 4, mute Hn 2 and 4 and play a unison line with Hns 1 and 3, mute Hn 4 and play a 3 Hn section of 1, 2 and 3, etc. The variety of tonal colors I got from the multitude of variations is thrilling and opened up some interesting possibilities.
What I'd like to be able to do is have the four patches loaded on one MIDI track and via MIDI CCs mute and unmute any of the individual horns with the push of a button on my keyboard controller. (Note: I'm not talking about turning the Horn mutes on and off, I mean turning off the patch itself so it doesn't play.) This way I could play a solo horn, Horn a2, Horn a3 or Horn a4 whenever the music calls for it.
In case you're wondering, yes, I have the regular individual patches loaded, each on its own MIDI track for solo and chordal parts. I've performed a2, a3, a4 sections with this setup but the way the Horns for Unison are programmed sounds superior for unison lines to anything I can do multi-tracking the individual horns. Plus, the convenience of switching the size of the section at a moment's notice is a huge creative and logistic boost, not to mention the time-savings of performing the line once.
The mute button in Kontakt can't be automated. I keep reading that it might be done with a script but none exists that I know of and I'm not that tech savvy to write my own. I could possibly automate turning the instrument off and on if I could edit inside Kontakt's full version but that access has been blocked — probably for good reason.
Would love to hear ideas on how to make this a reality.
I discovered something wonderful about the Horns today and it inspired me to try something new with my template. I can't accomplish what I need in Kontakt so I'm hoping you may have a solution.
While playing with the four Horn for Unison patches I began muting one or two of the patches (via the Mute button in Kontakt) in various combinations so I was essentially playing a 2 or 3 horn section instead of the four as intended. For example, mute Hn 1 and 2 and play a unison line with Hn 3 and 4, mute Hn 2 and 4 and play a unison line with Hns 1 and 3, mute Hn 4 and play a 3 Hn section of 1, 2 and 3, etc. The variety of tonal colors I got from the multitude of variations is thrilling and opened up some interesting possibilities.
What I'd like to be able to do is have the four patches loaded on one MIDI track and via MIDI CCs mute and unmute any of the individual horns with the push of a button on my keyboard controller. (Note: I'm not talking about turning the Horn mutes on and off, I mean turning off the patch itself so it doesn't play.) This way I could play a solo horn, Horn a2, Horn a3 or Horn a4 whenever the music calls for it.
In case you're wondering, yes, I have the regular individual patches loaded, each on its own MIDI track for solo and chordal parts. I've performed a2, a3, a4 sections with this setup but the way the Horns for Unison are programmed sounds superior for unison lines to anything I can do multi-tracking the individual horns. Plus, the convenience of switching the size of the section at a moment's notice is a huge creative and logistic boost, not to mention the time-savings of performing the line once.
The mute button in Kontakt can't be automated. I keep reading that it might be done with a script but none exists that I know of and I'm not that tech savvy to write my own. I could possibly automate turning the instrument off and on if I could edit inside Kontakt's full version but that access has been blocked — probably for good reason.
Would love to hear ideas on how to make this a reality.
Comments
What do you mean by "I play" ?
Keyboard, Breath controller, Wind Controller or pre-programmed Midi sequences ?
Do you use some software to host the Sample Modeling instruments as VSTs or do you use the stand-alone version of Kontakt ?
I use Reaper as a VST host holding multiple Kontakt-based instruments (not by Sample Modeling) and the Sample Modeling SWAM Flute as plugins, for live playing with master keyboards and Breath controller.
With Reaper you can program such things as you describe. (Of course it can do a lot more with live sound handling and moreover it can be used as an excellent DAW for recording/mastering - which is it's normal purpose.)
I recently did some Reaper-plugin (script) programming making use of PC keyboard shortcut.
(AFAIK, even introducing existing scripts in an existing sound is not possible with Kontakt player.)
-Michael
I'm not familiar with Reaper. Sounds like an interesting option. I haven't yet explored VEPro for automation options, though I did learn there's not a way to automate the mute button in VEPro's mixer.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Maybe Kobi can comment on this, as well, as he once recommended Reaper to me and he owns all Sample Modeling instruments and supposedly will know better than I what exactly you are trying to accomplish.
I misunderstood that you don't want to use a PC key (Like Kobi does) as a shortcut for the sound change but a button on your Master Keyboard.
This is exactly what I do all the time: I use the program change buttons of my master keyboard(s) for changing the patches (sounds).
Reaper can do this out of the box (kind of) by muting / unmuting tracks and/or pushing VST parameters (not just CC values !) onto the active plugins of a track. Of course a track can hold any number of VSTis, VSTs, and settings. (E.g. you an use a single track, within that track's effect chain split the midi path to four and insert a midi mute plugin in either and have SWS control same. But there are lots of different ways to achieve such result, including placing the instruments in varying positions in a virtual room.)
Besids Reaper you need three free plugins (SWS and two tiny VSTs) and some (not exactly trivial) configuration.
See here for a hopefully understandable description ->
http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf
-Michael
As Michael suggested sounds like all you are asking for is possible using Reaper live configs. If you are interested to go that route, I would be happy to assist.
Kobi
I am still interested in hearing from SM about any current or future potential for turning each instrument off and on. Even better would be an add-on program that would give us true "divisi" capabilities with all the Kontakt libs. Any possibility something like that is in the works?
IMHO this is Not a good Idea.
I feel that the VSTi should be as lean as possible. Additional effects can be added in the effect chain off the appropriate VST host: midi stuff before and audio stuff behind the SM engine (SWAM or Kontakt).
IMHO even the (nice) reverb could be dropped, as there are excellent free convolution reverbs (engine and impulse files), everybody can use.
In fact I think the best option would be to distribute the SM projects bundled with reaper (plus add ons such as SWS-LiveConfigs), together with a set of decently prepared Reaper projects (and maybe some plugin scripts optimized for the instrument in question). (Maybe a trial version would suffice.)
(The Kontakt based SM products come bundled with third-party, anyway. )
-Michael
You can create in any daw tracks sending midi to multiple midi channels, so you can create all the combinations (a4, all a3s, a2s and individual horns) and the use the tracks that fit your needs.
For now, muting VEPro audio channels gets me the closest to that.