Can Mr. Sax T really wail?
Question before purchasing:
So far all of the demos I've heard of Mr. Sax T have had an extremely subdued sound with no "screaming sax" as it were. Those parts sound good but it also gives the impression that the instrument's capability/range might be basic and 'half-complete.' That's a fair proposition if one only wants a smooth, laid-back sax.
So can this sax really blast out the notes, wail, and growl?
I can't think of a great example but, for instance, consider some of Tim Cappello's playing:
-- first 40 seconds
-- 3:00 - 3:27 (raw)
-- 4:35 - 4:55 (more raw)
I don't expect perfection; however, the ability to reflect more of the saxophone's ability to get intense would be much more realistic (i.e. something I'm sure you're aiming for as well). Even if this virtual instrument can't do this yet, I'm still considering it for less dramatic music parts and would hope to see/hear much more in v1.5 or v2. :P
Either way, please keep up the great work!
_______
Just for reference: I'll be using an Akai EWI USB and any additional expression controls if necessary.
So far all of the demos I've heard of Mr. Sax T have had an extremely subdued sound with no "screaming sax" as it were. Those parts sound good but it also gives the impression that the instrument's capability/range might be basic and 'half-complete.' That's a fair proposition if one only wants a smooth, laid-back sax.
So can this sax really blast out the notes, wail, and growl?
I can't think of a great example but, for instance, consider some of Tim Cappello's playing:
-- first 40 seconds
-- 3:00 - 3:27 (raw)
-- 4:35 - 4:55 (more raw)
I don't expect perfection; however, the ability to reflect more of the saxophone's ability to get intense would be much more realistic (i.e. something I'm sure you're aiming for as well). Even if this virtual instrument can't do this yet, I'm still considering it for less dramatic music parts and would hope to see/hear much more in v1.5 or v2. :P
Either way, please keep up the great work!
_______
Just for reference: I'll be using an Akai EWI USB and any additional expression controls if necessary.
Comments
I have to say that in my opinion there is a limitation with what you're asking. Unlike the Trumpet, it does seem a little one dimensional. I can't use it on high energy stuff, but think it will be good in certain musical settings but having only had it a couple of weeks I only used it on a funky track and it's not really believable. I'm hoping it's me and that in time I can get a more convincing performance out of it.
Regards,
Tony
Although, I haven't tried to use it in any actual tracks I ran into the same thing just jamming with it. It seems to have a smoothed out sound that limits it's high energy timbre, like a snare drum only being hit so-so. Yes, EQ and fx can be added along with mixer volume but like the snare example it's a band-aid. The sound of a snare changes / comes alive when really cracked solid - the sax seems to lack that "come-alive" timbre change. IMHO
I hope this will be addressed in a future update. It really does sound good so far and is very playable.
On another note - I read a post about pitch bend up - that a sax doesn't bend up. True. And Mr Sax is going for realizim. However we as "keyboard" players are used to bending up - so...
Can a script be written to allow pitch bend up and on note release "reset" the bender to "0" position? Allowing us to bend up but really sounding like a slide up? This would let us play keyboard abit more as we're used to and yet keep the realizim.
That is absolutely NOT true. Many sax players can & do bend up!
Mick
(former saxophonist...now Synthophonist)
I was afraid of that. Anything that limits the range/expression severely is hard to get into, regardless of whether one's a pro or just screwing around. (And I say 'severely' because playing with limited sound is kind of like having a hand tied behind oneself or being out of air: no moments of intensity and the song won't be alive.)
Sorry if I'm being down on an otherwise good product. It's just constructive criticism so that they'll make a better product and sell more of 'em.
Anyone have similar or different experiences using it?
R.
http://www.samplemodeling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=152
Tony
http://www.samplemodeling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=152
Very nice!!! I think for live playing at the present time if you want better you will have to buy a real sax. I suspect the critics are possibly new to sax emulataion and haven't yet struggled over the years with kazoo or wailing bagpipe sounds purporting to be sax.
Regards Pete.
1. Real players do'nt play in tune ALL the time,they wobble a bit(even the really great ones) thats why long held notes on a sample modeled instrument be it cello violin , sax or trumpet can sound a bit fake, the trick for a recording is nudge the tuning randomly a few cents in the midi editor after doing the real time playing or just give the pitch wheel a little nudge during a long note(the wooden pitch stick on my Nord Wave is the best thing since sliced bread for doing this)
2. Real players do'nt play at the same volume all the time try backing off the expression pedal at the end of phrases and 'fading' in at the beginning of phrases,its all about playing technique really, a samplemodeled instrument wont do it for you, have to inject a bit of passion into to make it come alive but once you've grasped it a bit, the same techniques work for saxes violins, harmonicas, clarinets ,you name it.
3.Real players nearly always add vibrato to nearly every thing nearly all the time, its their way of staying in tune and makes the instrument sound fatter and more alive.
4.Don't uses quantization,session drummer Clem Cattini's
famous quote to producer 'can I have the strings in the cans a little bit faster please' if its too in time it do'nt sound real,midi quantization has been killing music for years human beings have timing issues no matter how small, the push and pull of people playing together is where the magic lies thats why some peoples stuff sounds like a midi demo and some people does'nt.
5.With all this digital stuff ( and I'm forever saying this to electric guitar players in the studio) back the treble off a bit,I learnt this from the great James Burton- Elvis's guitarist during the Vegas years, when you really listen close to some classic old recordings of saxes trumpets cellos you name it, the treble got squashed abit in the analogue and the distortion but not in digital so things can sound unreal if something is poking out too much,blur the edges a bit and it will all sound less clinical and more believable.
Giorgio Tomassini you are a genius on many levels power
to you my friend for giving me a new reason to stay up
late every night with your inventions, all I need now is another hit and I'll be back on that beach in Barbados.
Merry Christmas and Happy New year to you all
You made the point. If one connects a real trumpet to an air pump working at constant pressure,
the resulting sound will be probably classified as "dull", "dead", "synthy" and "unrealistic".
Giorgio
These advices can be transposed to many others vsti and can be summarized like this :
"If you want to simulate a real instrument as close as possible, you have to learn all the caracteristics of the instrument* and subtleties used by a real player and use all the controlers available on your vsti to do so"
* to learn the tessiture is already the very first thing to do to avoid big mistake.
If you really love the instrument that you want to simulate and if you listen really carefully a lot of piece of music where the instrument is very exposed this will help a lot ...