Using instruments with a DAW
I have all of the SM instruments, and up to now have used them only for real-time performance with a wind controller. They work fine for that (and the new Horn & Tuba are really nice). Today I decided I would try using them to play back MIDI files that I have composed. The work flow is: Compose in Finale, save as MIDI, insert as separate MIDI tracks in REAPER, assign virtual instrument to each track, play file. This works properly when using GPO4 (Garritan Personal Orchestra), but not with SM instruments. I can't get rid of the message "WARNING: CC11 not received yet. The instrument will not work properly!". And it's right, all I can get is a sickly sound that is nothing like what it ought to be. I can play the sounds with either the Kontakt or REAPER virtual keyboard, but the message stays there and it sounds bad. The User Manual says I can use a sequencer and says it has been tested with a number of them, but not REAPER. Is this a REAPER problem or am I just overlooking something obvious to get this to work?
Dick
Dick
Comments
please check the following:
1) is the instrument working in KB or WC mode
2) which controller is mapped to expression
3) which CC is shown in your sequence
If you are getting this message, it's simply because the proper CC (#2 in WC mode, #11 in KB mode is not properly linked to expression.
Best,
Giorgio
I'm using KB mode. The MIDI file doesn't have any controllers that can be mapped to expression, just velocity. So I don't see any way to provide CC#11 without playing it in or adding it manually (I'm not keen on that). I realize in order to get the most out of the SM instruments that I have to provide the appropriate controllers, but in this case I'm just trying to play a normal MIDI file generated by a notation program. I guess I am asking for something that was not intended of the SM instruments, but such a file sounds fairly good when played with GPO4 as I mentioned. Maybe what is needed is another mode to go with KB, BC, and WC modes, maybe "none of the above" to support standard MIDI files with velocity.
Dick
please allow me the following analogy: could you imagine driving a car without using the gas pedal? You would certainly complain it is much too slow... :-) I would completely agree! But would you ask for constructing a customized version without the pedal? Certainly not, since a car without the gas pedal would be useless... So you would have to use a common car and fix the pedal somehow - e.g. by putting a heavy stone on it... :-)
Sorry for the joke, but this analogy comes close to your problem. Our instruments are not just samples, but Virtual Instruments, which must be played similarly to the real ones. Which means: "no blow, no sound" :-). One of the most important parameters is the dynamics, which must be continuously driven. I mean - continuously, not via velocity, which cannot be continuously changed (and which is already reserved for controlling the transition time/legato and attacks). Keeping the intensity (dynamics) on a fixed level would lead to very poor results, similar to an organ or a synthesizer sound.
Of course, for a brief layouting/composing, one can fix the dynamics on a certain level. This can be done for example with any physical controller (even with the ModWheel, if you remap CC1 to dynamics, i.e. CC11 on the MIDI remapper menu), which, however, must be recorded as a MIDI track in your sequencer. Alternatively you can define a controller track in the sequencer afterwards, drawing a horizontal line corresponding to the desired level/dynamics. The more "lively" the shape of this line, the better the results. You can even record afterwards the CC11 track driving your Modwheel (assigned to CC11) as an overdub, while listening (in realtime) to the results.
By the way - please consider higher settings of the CC25 ("Velocity to Dynamics"; see the Manual for details). This will make the instrument dynamics responding more to the velocity on an initial attack. Still, a certain CC11 greater than zero must be provided.
To conclude using the above analogy: never attempt to drive a car without using the gas pedal! :-)
Best regards
Peter & Giorgio
I like your analogy, but in my case I'm going to have to fix the gas pedal anyway, so I might as well use the best car I can get!
I understand the things you said about the best way to play the SM instruments. As I said, I have all of them and I'm able to play them very successfully with my wind controller. What I'm trying to do now is play them from a MIDI file that does not have much controller information. The whole point of exporting a composed (as opposed to a recorded) file from Finale to a DAW (REAPER in this case) is to allow the capabilities of the DAW to add the missing sound-shaping information at either a MIDI or audio level while using the best instrument sounds available. There is another thread called "Using Sample Modeling Instruments with Finale" where the intent is to play the instruments directly from Finale, and the suggestion is to get Finale and the SM instruments to work together properly. Not having that capability yet, however, I'm trying to use a separate DAW to make a good-sounding audio file.
I'm now able to play the midi files with Sample Modeling instruments in REAPER. It took some playing around with both REAPER and Kontakt to do it. One thing I learned from the Finale thread I mentioned above is that I can tell Finale to provide CC11 as well as velocity, and that works very well. You mentioned using CC25, Velocity to Dynamics, but that is not included in the Horn & Tuba, or at least I couldn't find it. I did find it in The Trumpet and The Trombone, but not in any other SM instruments. Well, not true, it is used to control Breath Noise in Ms. Sax S.
Thanks again for the comments.
Dick
sorry we cannot provide any support for Finale. But also there - a continuous control of CC11 is essential. Whereas your Reaper is certainly able to record a CC11 or CC2 track (e.g. from your Wind Controller) and control a SM instrument, maybe an expert in the Finale Forum can advice if and how it is possible in Finale.
If Finale cannot send any expression data, the following workaround is possible:
if the instrument does not get any CC11 (or CC2, depending on the mode) you can set the CC11 knob (or directly pull up the expression bar if playing a Sax) on the GUI at any value you like. Although the CC11 warning may not disappear, the actual dynamics will correspond to the knob setting. It will remain there as long as you do not send any CC11 from the host or your EWI.
Concerning the CC25 - "Velocity to Dynamics" - setting: this is, exactly as you say, available for The Trumpet and The Trombone. The Horns, due to their nature, have CC25 permanently set to 127. This knob has been removed from the GUI, since no other values should be used. Also the saxophones are using this function permanently.
I hope it helps...
Peter