Balancing Trumpets and Trombones with Horns (all v.3)

eirikbjeirikbj
edited September 2016 in General Questions
I have now balanced my Horns with my strings (LASS).

According to theory one horns is supposed to equal one string section. At most dynamics this works 1to1. All ok.



But, again according to theory: One trumpet is supposed to require two horns to mach dynamically. Same with Trombones vs Horns..



So at concert middle C, CC 60 this is the db readings:

1 Horn: -28

1 Tpt: -32

1 Trb: -32



At concert middle C, CC 90:

1 Horn: -21

1 Tpt: -27

1 Trb: -24



At concert middle C, CC 127:

1 Horn: -15

1 Tpt: -21

1 Trb: -17



At C4 the result are (for each CC accordingly:

1 Horn: -24, -21 and -15

1 Tpt: -31, -22 and -17

1 Trb: -34, -23 and -15



Conclusion: The horn are in all cases louder than the other two. Of course percieved loudness is what matters here, and in some cases this is true (2 Horns = 1 trumpet).



So the question is: Are the instruments balanced correctly against each other, or are the made so that 1 Horn = 1 Trumpet = 1 Trombone?

Comments

  • LHallLHall
    edited 11:39AM
    I can certainly appreciate this analytical approach, but I take what might perhaps be an easier route.



    I route each section to a different buss. Strings, winds, trumpets, bones, etc all on a different buss. I start with the strings buss at 0.00. Then I simply turn each section up till they sound good.
  • eirikbjeirikbj
    edited 11:39AM
    Yes, for shure that is a good approach, and I do that with my woodwind (Berlin) that is down around 6db from the strings.



    However, I would like to orchestrate so that the result internally in each section will be realistic.



    From my research it seems that the trumpets are half the strength its supposed to be, and that is a bit too off, if you get me. :D
  • MSchnellMSchnell
    edited 11:39AM
    I have no mixing experience, but I don't believe Realism can be "forced" that way.



    -Michael
  • eirikbjeirikbj
    edited 11:39AM
    I´m sorry Michael, I don´t quite get you.

    Do you mean by balancing the libraries?
  • MSchnellMSchnell
    edited 11:39AM
    Of course balancing is very appropriate, But assuming some theoretical predefined volume lever for the virtual instruments and some theoretical optimum output level for the final mix (independent from the actual performance and then claiming that setting the volume slider to the difference of that theoretical levels (in dB) ill not be of great benefit (IMHO) .



    - Michael
  • eirikbjeirikbj
    edited 11:39AM
    I appreciate that, but as I would like to be able to foresee what my pieces will sound like on an actual orhcestra i.e. beeing able to know what is piano, forte and soforth on each instrument, this would be of high value to me.
  • MSchnellMSchnell
    edited 11:39AM
    How do you think a reliable mapping between "piano, forte and soforth" to midi "expression" CC values can defined " on each instrument" ?



    -Michael
  • eirikbjeirikbj
    edited 11:39AM
    You could say that expression of midi value 90=forte, or you could argue that that it should be 60 or 70 or whatnot.



    But: At the same cc midi value, one trumpet should balance to two horns. Now it does not do that.

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