It's really low to assume that someone's opinion is not valid for the reasons you stated, which are simply unfundamented.
Hey Niah,
I apologize for the offense. This is an attitude I see often in many forums and it was not fair for me to lay it all on your doorstep. Please accept my apology.
Obviously, I'll stand by my statement that those instruments sound wonderful and you'll stand by yours that they sound awful. No problem. We can all still get along.
Ok now I understand why you said that. I am aware that there are users who have had personal issues with certain companies and decide to lash out on the forums.
Thank you for your appologie and I am sorry if I came out too strong I shouldn't have felt offended as well.
Pingu,
I don't think I need to put IMO on every sentence. Every post I make is my opinion and I am not posting it as a fact. Sorry if that comes across as so. It was never my intend.
Regarding the ensembles...
The problem that I have with that idea is that so far building sections and ensembles with samplemodeling doesn't sound convicing to me. Again this my opinion and I am not saying it is a fact.
I am talking mainly of the trumpet of course, and the 3 different trumpets playing in unison to form a section just don't sound quite right...again, to me.
There is something lost in there, that others have noticed as well.
I think that's why samplemodeling is now working something on a new approach to ensembles.
I don't think I need to put IMO on every sentence. Every post I make is my opinion and I am not posting it as a fact. Sorry if that comes across as so. It was never my intend.
Let's not worry about it any more! I was probably just in the wrong mood - I'm a high school teacher, and spend all day locked in petty semantic arguments with boys, who suddenly think like lawyers when trying to escape punishment. Sometimes I forget to switch off.
Regarding the ensembles...
The problem that I have with that idea is that so far building sections and ensembles with samplemodeling doesn't sound convicing to me. Again this my opinion and I am not saying it is a fact.
I am talking mainly of the trumpet of course, and the 3 different trumpets playing in unison to form a section just don't sound quite right...again, to me.
There is something lost in there, that others have noticed as well.
I think that's why samplemodeling is now working something on a new approach to ensembles.
I really hope they succeed.
OK I understand now. Is the problem literally just when the trumpets play a unison? Or do you mean they just don't seem to work together at all? See I'm thinking that I rarely want a unison - I write a lot more divisi, and quite active counterpoint, so the idea of having three instruments which are all capable of carrying off quite an exposed, detailed line is great. On the other hand, you're right - when I do want a tutti I don't want to hear weird phasey sounds or similar.
All I can say is that my opinion is genuine, and that the refered product simply doesn't fit my musical needs. It does fit some people and that's just fine I can accept that.
...But what you said was not 'The Strad and Gofriller don't suit me.' You said that the Gofriller and Strad sound awful - which is blatantly nonsense.
It's fine if they don't suit you, but they are still the best stringed instruments to date. To some they may sound more synthetic than, for instance, the Vienna solo strings. But tone is only half the job in putting together a convincing performance - and even with a gazillion articultions the Vienna stuff can't replicate what Giorgio's technology achieves in the Strad and Gofriller. Every other instrument out there sounds like bunch of isolated samples strung clunkily together, no matter how beautifully recorded.
Possibly some renderings you know, done with the Strad and Gofriller, don't sound great - but it's possible to produce rubbish with any sample library. There are also plenty of recordings done with Garritan's instruments that are utterly convincing.
Why is that nonsense? It is exactly because it sounds awful that it's useless to me and I am not alone on this.
It's all relative anyway we all have different tastes and preferences and certainly different aesthetics. So I don't understand what the fuzz is all about.
Yes the strad and the gof are the best solo strings, I have praised their performance capabilities many times before, my only grips is with the sound.
VSL? not a big fan of their sound, and yes alot of their sound sounds awful as well, but I recognize its quality and versatility.
Getting back to ensembles then...
If you check the news you will see that samplemodeling is already working with bringing us ensemble.
I don't know what they are doing but I still find that your idea of building ensembles out of just solo instruments is not going to work out well.
In fact I'm curious, what makes you think that this is the way?
So far all my experiments indicate otherwise.
The Gofriller and Stradivari are also more real virtual instruments and they sound only realistic and nice if you learn how to play them! There are so many demos what show you how goood they can sound.
Last year i did some experiments with "sectionbuilding", using soloinstruments. And: It works!
But you must know how to edit them, you must know how a real section sounds and at least you must have great ears!
I don't think I need to put IMO on every sentence. Every post I make is my opinion and I am not posting it as a fact. Sorry if that comes across as so. It was never my intend.
Let's not worry about it any more! I was probably just in the wrong mood - I'm a high school teacher, and spend all day locked in petty semantic arguments with boys, who suddenly think like lawyers when trying to escape punishment. Sometimes I forget to switch off.
Regarding the ensembles...
The problem that I have with that idea is that so far building sections and ensembles with samplemodeling doesn't sound convicing to me. Again this my opinion and I am not saying it is a fact.
I am talking mainly of the trumpet of course, and the 3 different trumpets playing in unison to form a section just don't sound quite right...again, to me.
There is something lost in there, that others have noticed as well.
I think that's why samplemodeling is now working something on a new approach to ensembles.
I really hope they succeed.
OK I understand now. Is the problem literally just when the trumpets play a unison? Or do you mean they just don't seem to work together at all? See I'm thinking that I rarely want a unison - I write a lot more divisi, and quite active counterpoint, so the idea of having three instruments which are all capable of carrying off quite an exposed, detailed line is great. On the other hand, you're right - when I do want a tutti I don't want to hear weird phasey sounds or similar.
To be honest I haven't heard much divisi work with samplemodeling but I don't think there's a problem there. It's really unison, or tutti that seems to have a weird behaviour sound-wise.
I have seen/heard successful experiments of building ensembles/sections using solo instruments with real instruments. For instance a cello line recorded multiple times, etc, hailed very good results. But when using virtual instruments or samples the results don't sound as good.
As I said earlier it seems like samplemodeling is putting effort into a different aproach to section and ensembles so who knows what they will come up with. They may even come up with auto-divisi.
I'm afraid that I have to agree with Niah about the Strad. It sounds pretty horrid to me. However, I wouldn't say that the offerings from any other developer are much better in the Solo Strings area. I would also say that most of the demos I've heard are bad to dreadful, which doesn't do the instrument any favours, but my real problem is that the sound is not good, which is the most important thing to me.
The person above doubting the Gofriller is just plain wrong and couldn't possibly have spent enough time with it to appreciate it. Get some valve compression, vintage EQ, and a great convolution reverb on it and it's out of this world. It's even amazing with distortion and echo: like the best electric guitar you ever heard.
To me it's become a lynch pin of my productions just because of its rich, beautiful, organic, evolving sound. Even used just as a slowly swelling background pad with no vibrato people have said 'wow I love that organ sound'.
To me it's one of a tiny group of truly excellent products that have transformed my sound. Others include Samplemodeling's Sax and Trumpet, and of course when they bring out a cello improvement to their early work for Garritan, that will rule the world.
By the way, hurry up with flute, I need one! Oh, and an oboe.
Nobody is wrong or right, people are just expressing their opinions.
And I really don't find that the fact that you can use the gof to make it sound like an organ or an electric guitar is a very good argument. You can use all sorts of methods and tools to achieve that. The gof is about achieving the sound of a cello. And that's what we are debating.
Anyway it just came to my attention, that a thread about the discussing of future instruments by samplemodeling has ended in a discussing about non-samplemodeling products.
People are using this forum to comunicate with the company and suggest future instruments that they would like to see done by samplemodeling.
People have asked for a french horn, others have asked for more saxophones, other even winds. But whenever someone requests a violin or cello the Strad and Gof are immediately mentioned.
I personally don't understand this, is it because giorgio and stefano were involved? Because if so they have already mentioned that the technology here used on samplemodeling is not the same. A samplemodeling violin and cello wouldn't be an improvement but a completely new set of virtual instruments. More than that this a samplemodeling forum and this is a new company. So it doesn't make too much sense to me.
Whenever someone has requested an instrument I have respected that request by not mentioning any non-samplemodeling products even when I consider that there are alot of fine offers in the market for that instrument. And I think we all are doing that.
But the table suddenly turns when solo strings are mentioned. Again I feel a bit confused by this.
If you are happy with what the market has to offer in terms of solo strings that's ok. But please don't step on others opinions who think that a samplemodeling solo violin and cello would better suit their musical needs.
Or worst yet assuming that the people who have those opinions are people who are unable to use this software or that are not skillfull enough.
I would gladly continue this discussion about future instruments and take it even further by discussing specifically what we would like to see on the future samplemodeling instruments. Things like timbre, performance features, playing styles, etc...
If on the other hand people want to insist in discussing non-samplemodeling products and how good or bad they are then I guess that's it for me folks.
Niah wrote:
Nobody is wrong or right, people are just expressing their opinions.
Exactly, and with so few posts, it doesn't bother me being side tracked occassionally
Anyway it just came to my attention, that a thread about the discussing of future instruments by samplemodeling has ended in a discussing about non-samplemodeling products.
Yep, tends to happen in forums and I think we are all guilty of stepping out of sync on occassions.
If on the other hand people want to insist in discussing non-samplemodeling products and how good or bad they are then I guess that's it for me folks.
Shame!!
Personally, to bring it back on topic, I want a soprano (for faster passages.) and alto sax.
But, in my opinion Samplemodelling is the future, I don't think anything compares
Old thread but maybe you guys do have the solution: What about making one (or many) serious hihat, that could properly work with a CC midi pedal?
I own a Roland SPD-S and after a lot of search on the web and try all the possibilities, I have to say that nothing works properly to get a realistic hihat. Maybe this multisample tech you have got here could make this thing right! I mean, modulating the hihat sound after beating the pad (or key ) by the pedal (or modulation wheel, or pot or whatever) would be very nice. Untill now there´s no serious way to doing so, except perhaps buying one of these ultra expensive Roland or Yamaha V-drums, and still, that would not be midi data, but wav files to record...
Comments
Hey Niah,
I apologize for the offense. This is an attitude I see often in many forums and it was not fair for me to lay it all on your doorstep. Please accept my apology.
Obviously, I'll stand by my statement that those instruments sound wonderful and you'll stand by yours that they sound awful. No problem. We can all still get along.
Sorry to all for taking this thread OT.
Ok now I understand why you said that. I am aware that there are users who have had personal issues with certain companies and decide to lash out on the forums.
Thank you for your appologie and I am sorry if I came out too strong I shouldn't have felt offended as well.
Pingu,
I don't think I need to put IMO on every sentence. Every post I make is my opinion and I am not posting it as a fact. Sorry if that comes across as so. It was never my intend.
Regarding the ensembles...
The problem that I have with that idea is that so far building sections and ensembles with samplemodeling doesn't sound convicing to me. Again this my opinion and I am not saying it is a fact.
I am talking mainly of the trumpet of course, and the 3 different trumpets playing in unison to form a section just don't sound quite right...again, to me.
There is something lost in there, that others have noticed as well.
I think that's why samplemodeling is now working something on a new approach to ensembles.
I really hope they succeed.
Pingu,
I don't think I need to put IMO on every sentence. Every post I make is my opinion and I am not posting it as a fact. Sorry if that comes across as so. It was never my intend.
Let's not worry about it any more! I was probably just in the wrong mood - I'm a high school teacher, and spend all day locked in petty semantic arguments with boys, who suddenly think like lawyers when trying to escape punishment. Sometimes I forget to switch off.
Regarding the ensembles...
The problem that I have with that idea is that so far building sections and ensembles with samplemodeling doesn't sound convicing to me. Again this my opinion and I am not saying it is a fact.
I am talking mainly of the trumpet of course, and the 3 different trumpets playing in unison to form a section just don't sound quite right...again, to me.
There is something lost in there, that others have noticed as well.
I think that's why samplemodeling is now working something on a new approach to ensembles.
I really hope they succeed.
OK I understand now. Is the problem literally just when the trumpets play a unison? Or do you mean they just don't seem to work together at all? See I'm thinking that I rarely want a unison - I write a lot more divisi, and quite active counterpoint, so the idea of having three instruments which are all capable of carrying off quite an exposed, detailed line is great. On the other hand, you're right - when I do want a tutti I don't want to hear weird phasey sounds or similar.
All I can say is that my opinion is genuine, and that the refered product simply doesn't fit my musical needs. It does fit some people and that's just fine I can accept that.
...But what you said was not 'The Strad and Gofriller don't suit me.' You said that the Gofriller and Strad sound awful - which is blatantly nonsense.
It's fine if they don't suit you, but they are still the best stringed instruments to date. To some they may sound more synthetic than, for instance, the Vienna solo strings. But tone is only half the job in putting together a convincing performance - and even with a gazillion articultions the Vienna stuff can't replicate what Giorgio's technology achieves in the Strad and Gofriller. Every other instrument out there sounds like bunch of isolated samples strung clunkily together, no matter how beautifully recorded.
Possibly some renderings you know, done with the Strad and Gofriller, don't sound great - but it's possible to produce rubbish with any sample library. There are also plenty of recordings done with Garritan's instruments that are utterly convincing.
Why is that nonsense? It is exactly because it sounds awful that it's useless to me and I am not alone on this.
It's all relative anyway we all have different tastes and preferences and certainly different aesthetics. So I don't understand what the fuzz is all about.
Yes the strad and the gof are the best solo strings, I have praised their performance capabilities many times before, my only grips is with the sound.
VSL? not a big fan of their sound, and yes alot of their sound sounds awful as well, but I recognize its quality and versatility.
Getting back to ensembles then...
If you check the news you will see that samplemodeling is already working with bringing us ensemble.
I don't know what they are doing but I still find that your idea of building ensembles out of just solo instruments is not going to work out well.
In fact I'm curious, what makes you think that this is the way?
So far all my experiments indicate otherwise.
The Gofriller and Stradivari are also more real virtual instruments and they sound only realistic and nice if you learn how to play them! There are so many demos what show you how goood they can sound.
Last year i did some experiments with "sectionbuilding", using soloinstruments. And: It works!
But you must know how to edit them, you must know how a real section sounds and at least you must have great ears!
Gunther
Pingu,
I don't think I need to put IMO on every sentence. Every post I make is my opinion and I am not posting it as a fact. Sorry if that comes across as so. It was never my intend.
Let's not worry about it any more! I was probably just in the wrong mood - I'm a high school teacher, and spend all day locked in petty semantic arguments with boys, who suddenly think like lawyers when trying to escape punishment. Sometimes I forget to switch off.
Regarding the ensembles...
The problem that I have with that idea is that so far building sections and ensembles with samplemodeling doesn't sound convicing to me. Again this my opinion and I am not saying it is a fact.
I am talking mainly of the trumpet of course, and the 3 different trumpets playing in unison to form a section just don't sound quite right...again, to me.
There is something lost in there, that others have noticed as well.
I think that's why samplemodeling is now working something on a new approach to ensembles.
I really hope they succeed.
OK I understand now. Is the problem literally just when the trumpets play a unison? Or do you mean they just don't seem to work together at all? See I'm thinking that I rarely want a unison - I write a lot more divisi, and quite active counterpoint, so the idea of having three instruments which are all capable of carrying off quite an exposed, detailed line is great. On the other hand, you're right - when I do want a tutti I don't want to hear weird phasey sounds or similar.
To be honest I haven't heard much divisi work with samplemodeling but I don't think there's a problem there. It's really unison, or tutti that seems to have a weird behaviour sound-wise.
I have seen/heard successful experiments of building ensembles/sections using solo instruments with real instruments. For instance a cello line recorded multiple times, etc, hailed very good results. But when using virtual instruments or samples the results don't sound as good.
As I said earlier it seems like samplemodeling is putting effort into a different aproach to section and ensembles so who knows what they will come up with. They may even come up with auto-divisi.
D
Dan
To me it's become a lynch pin of my productions just because of its rich, beautiful, organic, evolving sound. Even used just as a slowly swelling background pad with no vibrato people have said 'wow I love that organ sound'.
To me it's one of a tiny group of truly excellent products that have transformed my sound. Others include Samplemodeling's Sax and Trumpet, and of course when they bring out a cello improvement to their early work for Garritan, that will rule the world.
By the way, hurry up with flute, I need one! Oh, and an oboe.
And I really don't find that the fact that you can use the gof to make it sound like an organ or an electric guitar is a very good argument. You can use all sorts of methods and tools to achieve that. The gof is about achieving the sound of a cello. And that's what we are debating.
Anyway it just came to my attention, that a thread about the discussing of future instruments by samplemodeling has ended in a discussing about non-samplemodeling products.
People are using this forum to comunicate with the company and suggest future instruments that they would like to see done by samplemodeling.
People have asked for a french horn, others have asked for more saxophones, other even winds. But whenever someone requests a violin or cello the Strad and Gof are immediately mentioned.
I personally don't understand this, is it because giorgio and stefano were involved? Because if so they have already mentioned that the technology here used on samplemodeling is not the same. A samplemodeling violin and cello wouldn't be an improvement but a completely new set of virtual instruments. More than that this a samplemodeling forum and this is a new company. So it doesn't make too much sense to me.
Whenever someone has requested an instrument I have respected that request by not mentioning any non-samplemodeling products even when I consider that there are alot of fine offers in the market for that instrument. And I think we all are doing that.
But the table suddenly turns when solo strings are mentioned. Again I feel a bit confused by this.
If you are happy with what the market has to offer in terms of solo strings that's ok. But please don't step on others opinions who think that a samplemodeling solo violin and cello would better suit their musical needs.
Or worst yet assuming that the people who have those opinions are people who are unable to use this software or that are not skillfull enough.
I would gladly continue this discussion about future instruments and take it even further by discussing specifically what we would like to see on the future samplemodeling instruments. Things like timbre, performance features, playing styles, etc...
If on the other hand people want to insist in discussing non-samplemodeling products and how good or bad they are then I guess that's it for me folks.
Exactly, and with so few posts, it doesn't bother me being side tracked occassionally
Anyway it just came to my attention, that a thread about the discussing of future instruments by samplemodeling has ended in a discussing about non-samplemodeling products.
If on the other hand people want to insist in discussing non-samplemodeling products and how good or bad they are then I guess that's it for me folks.
Shame!!
Personally, to bring it back on topic, I want a soprano (for faster passages.) and alto sax.
But, in my opinion Samplemodelling is the future, I don't think anything compares
Regards Pete.
Giorgio, Peter & Stefano
la la la happy dance happy dance
gentlemen I suggest you visit this thread if you are curious to know what's coming:
http://www.samplemodeling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=271
that's the relevance. but, they've come a long way since then so the new string products promise big improvements!
sample modeled ensemble strings? oh my... this is too much to hope for
Old thread but maybe you guys do have the solution: What about making one (or many) serious hihat, that could properly work with a CC midi pedal?
I own a Roland SPD-S and after a lot of search on the web and try all the possibilities, I have to say that nothing works properly to get a realistic hihat. Maybe this multisample tech you have got here could make this thing right! I mean, modulating the hihat sound after beating the pad (or key
I want a serious hihat, guys!!!