What's with Kontact???
On the advice of Bob Hunt, I used "Reaper" and played Mr Sax T at 256, no dropouts, while wireless connected to the internet and all programs blazing.
Now after turning everything off and using the Kontakt 2 player I managed just to get down to 512 but was still getting dropouts.
So whats with this Kontakt player??? its drove me nuts and stopped me using and enjoying Mr Sax T.
Regards Pete.
Now after turning everything off and using the Kontakt 2 player I managed just to get down to 512 but was still getting dropouts.
So whats with this Kontakt player??? its drove me nuts and stopped me using and enjoying Mr Sax T.
Regards Pete.
Comments
thanks
I would willingly forward your question to the developer of the Player, Native Instruments. However, I´d like to ask you to share some more details with us:
what computer do you use? CPU? Operating system? What audio hardware? I don´t know Reaper very well, but please note that what you´ve used in this host was nothing else than the Kontakt Player itself, but in the plugin mode... :-). Also - which sampling rate did you set? Please note that 88,2 kHz require doubling of the buffer size in order to keep the same latency, otherwise it may lead to an unnecessary high CPU load. But maybe there is just a configuration problem with your audio hardware if using the standalone mode. But first please let us know something more about your system and the audio settings you´ve used inside the Player.
Thanks.
Best
Peter
Thanks.
Best
Peter
Hi, thanks for your intersest, I have 1.83ghz Core 2 Duo 3GB ram 250GB Hard Drive, my laptop is an Inspiron 1525, only a few months old and it runs Vista Premium.
Yes Reaper runs the Kontakt player, but I don't get the dropouts. The big difference and I suspect the difference in performance is that in stand alone mode I have to use 48000 sampling rate, 41000 sounds like the "Daleks"? however when using "Reaper" I use 41000 and if I try to use 48000 it sounds like the "Daleks"?
The point is if "Reaper" can get it right, then "Kontakt" as the host should be able to do so so without using another host, or at least this should be pointed out.
I had a great time on Mr Sax T last night, for the first time, so my impression of Mr Sax T has been unduly marred by the stand alone player or the lack of information from Kontakt.
Regards Pete.
I received some interesting information. It seems that Reaper adds some extra latency to the latency setting of the audio card... :-)
This means - the tracks inside the host are additionally buffered. And, since MIDI itself has a certain latency, you won´t necessarily notice a difference between 7, 14 or even more milliseconds. So it seems that this comparison is not quite correct - one would have to really exactly measure the de facto latency.
This will be done, so I´ll let you know as soon as possible.
Best
Peter
PS: Sorry, but what do you mean saying that it sounds like "Daleks"?.. :-)
44,1 kHz (you don´t really mean 41000, do you?.. :-)) should sound quite well, 88,2 kHz is the best. If it´s not like that, I´m afraid there are some wrong settings. For example - did you make sure that the sample rate settings on the Sax GUI is exactly the same as on the audio hardware? It´s a must... (see Manual)
Latency is not the problem. When in Kontakt stand alone set at 44.1 the sound judders, so I have to set it too 48000. Now if I don't strip the laptop bare of everything Asio overloads and causes disruptions every few seconds. But even with everything stripped bare it still overloads about every 2 minutes, whatever setting.
I run DPC and it stated I had no issues, yet in Task manager, I note Kontakt at the top of the list everytime Asio overloads. By the way it overloads regardless of whether or not I'm playing.
I don't know if "Reaper" adds latency or not, but it plays at 44.1 and judders at 48000, the opposite to Kontakt.
The thing is, in the Kontakt player as a stand alone, Mr Sax T is unusable and this is using just one instrument, with my laptop stripped bare.
In "Reaper" I can play Mr Sax T at 256, with programs internet, everything working. So if "Reaper" causes extra latency, at the moment it is a price worth paying to actually be able to use Mr T.
Now you can say I am not doing something right, but I simply opened Kontact (stand alone) and "Reaper" one works and one doesn't. So if "Reaper" can set my soundcard (if thats the problem) then so should the program that was included with Mr T, in my opinion.
Regards Pete.
In Kontakt stand alone I have to change the rate from 44.1 to 48000 or the sax just judders (the best I can explain).
In "Reaper" I don't need to change it from 44.1 to 48000, it just plays right, however if I change it (in the Kontakt screen showing in Reaper) from 44.1 to 48000 the sax judders in Reaper, the opposite of Kontakt stand alone.
Regards Pete.
I only tried Mr T as an afterthought. Now wivi is no use to me, as Mr T is so what I have been looking for, I am not intersested in the Wivi saxes, which sound (at least to me) so synthetic after playing Mr T.
Regards Pete.
I hope you understand that no problem tracking is possible without knowing the details about your system. We still need to know what audio hardware you use and which driver appears in the player settings.
Do doubt, your problem is not because the player is bad, but because your system is not configured as described in the Manual or on our Product Page. But there is a hope to get it fixed soon, so no reason to get angry... :-)
1. Operating system.
You say you use VISTA. Please note that the Kontakt Player, as described, is primarily designed to run on Win XP. Yes, VISTA is compatible, but you cannot run VISTA without doing some tuning, since VISTA needs much more CPU power. For that reason, for example, you have to switch off the User Account Control. But before doing it, please visit Native Instruments and find in the Knowledge Base "Vista Tuning Tips". You will find out everything necessary for proper functioning of the Player in VISTA environment. This is essential, since VISTA uses much more CPU resources.
2. Audio hardware.
I´m afraid you are using the on-board audio hardware. This is, of course, not what we consider as suitable (see our descriptions on the Product page). Moreover: I´m very much afraid that the on-board audio does not support different Sample Rates... Still, this is not a katastrophy - see below;
3. Audio driver
This is probably the main reason why Reaper works better at the moment: according to Native Instruments, Reaper is using its own ASIO driver, which is reserved for this application only. Didn´t you have a look at the audio hardware settings in the Player? What driver do you see? It´s probably anything else, but not ASIO... But ASIO is actually a must; other drivers are not suitable, what´s clearly described in the Manual.
By the way: you write "latency is not the problem". It is, because you can overcome massive audio card problems using high latency settings; low latency needs much higher CPU load - with all its consequences like "juddering" sound.
The remedy suggested by Native Instrument is the following:
1. Tune your VISTA as described above
2. Please download the driver ASIO4all, which is free. This should allow you to use your existing audio hardware (even the on-board one).
If you have any other questions, please write us exactly what is the audio driver configuration in your Player and which sample rate settings does your audio hardware allow. Please note that the difference between the Reaper and the Player performance is obviously due to the lack of a suitable driver within the Player.
Best
Peter
The remedy suggested by Native Instrument is the following:
1. Tune your VISTA as described above
2. Please download the driver ASIO4all, which is free. This should allow you to use your existing audio hardware (even the on-board one).
Peter
Hi Peter, I use Asio4all both in Kontakt and Reaper (I had it when I installed Kontakt) and have tried all different settings. My sound card supports both 44.1 and 48000.
Anyway, I will use Reaper until I get a new soundcard (I may even install XP
Regards Pete.
P.s The driver that shows in Kontakt is Asio4all.
Regards Pete.
thank you for your feedback. Yes, it seems that Reaper introduces some extra buffer, so the comparison is not directly possible. Even the setting of 64 on Reaper´s ASIO may mean that the overall latency of the whole system is around 512 or even higher, what keeps the CPU load on a lower level. If you set the Player to 512 or higher, you should get similar results. Please don´t forget to always check that the Sample Rate is exactly the same on the audio hardware as well as on the Sax GUI. If you make any changes, don´t forget to store the instrument (nki) and re-open it. This is essential, otherwise the sound can be completely spoilt.
Unfortunately, I don´t have the Reaper, but you can check the overall latency playing a very short impuls and re-recording it via the analog input, I think. If Reaper does not compensate the delay by delayng the reproducing track (this I don´t know exactly), you might be able to measure the latency.
If I get any other explanation from Native Instrument, I´ll get back to you. In the meantime, please play Mr Sax via Reaper, if you prefer, or simply apply higher buffer size in the Player.
Best
Peter
I don't understand your explanation.
Even the setting of 64 on Reaper´s ASIO may mean that the overall latency of the whole system is around 512 or even higher, what keeps the CPU load on a lower level. If you set the Player to 512 or higher, you should get similar results.
The bottom line is that the CPU load is lower under Reaper than it is while running the stand alone player, at least on our end.
My guess is that other VST hosts would produce similar results. But it would be an easy matter on your end to download and try Reaper because the trial is free.
It is not a simple problem of having the sample rate mismatched. My limited experience is that if the sample rate is mismatched the sound is very noticeably bad and unplayable. At any rate I am sure Peter Gill has checked that as I have.
I think rather than looking at this in a negative way we were very happy to be able to run your software successfully, however that might be.
I think rather than looking at this in a negative way we were very happy to be able to run your software successfully, however that might be.
Thanks Bob. All the tec talk in the world doesn't change whether something sounds good or bad or is playable or not.
Anyway Peter, I have ordered the M-audio Fast track Pro, hopefully should arrive tomorrow
I will live with any discomfort I have to endure to get your software perfect because, it is, in my opinion, the way forward and I don't think anything else in the market comes close.
Regards Pete.
At 64 in Reaper I am very close to playing Yardbird suite at 224BPM. I can play this comfortably with my genesys XP after months of adjusting my tongue/breath technique. I think I need to fine tune my technique for Mr T, however I believe when fine tuned Mr T will be easier to play than my Genysys XP and a lot more expresive.
To put this in perspective, I can't even come close with Wallander WIVI set at 64 in Reaper or Minihost and that is with the little man sat on top of the instrument (you need to know the software to understand that). I lose half the notes, of cause WIVI might need a different technique.
I am getting M-audio to hopefully get as much out of your software as possible, however, as is presently in Reaper, I am very happy
Regards Pete.
If Reaper (inexpensive software) can make their software foolproof (even when using Kontakt), then why can't Kontakt do so when used as a stand alone player??
Regards Pete.
I´m not quite sure if we understand each other.
I´ve tried to explain that:
- buffer size is essential for the CPU load. Short latency (= small buffer size) leads to much higher CPU loads than large buffer settings. I hope it´s clear. And excessive CPU loads lead to dropouts and other distortions;
- if you set for example 256 as the buffer size in the Reaper, it doesn´t mean that the overall latency is that corresponding to 256. It´s more, because apparently the Reaper generally adds some more buffer size, what leads to much less CPU load.
So applying even as little as 64 in the Reaper is probably still like setting 768 in the Player. I guess this buffer setting certainly works with your Player as well, doesn´t it? So - no difference...
Of course we cannot know any further details, since we neither developed nor support this software.
However, should you have problems with an up-do-date PC with a 2 - 3 GHz CPU and a good audio hardware at 512 (standalone), there is something wrong with your configuration.
I, again, contacted Native Instruments, since they are the supporter of our software - particularly of the Player. They are kindly asking you to contact them via the link
http://www.native-instruments.de/index.php?id=support
They know the story - you can refer to our post exchange so far.
Maybe they can also better explain the difference between the Reaper and the standalone Player.
Best
Peter
So I won't need to Kontakt "Kontakt"
Regards Pete.